Treating nonsense with nonsense - Strategies for a better life [Richard Bandler].pdf - Richard Bandler - vordonglobal

INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD BANDLER

”Treating nonsense with nonsense” – Strategies for a better life

The interview took place in London, April 7 th and 8 th .The people present at the

interview were: Ronnie Amsler, Inger Haut, Lars Haut, Paula Bandler, Richard

Bandler

Richard: So much of my work changed over the year. I discovered it wasn't

good enough to teach people how to do good things. I had to teach them how to

make good choices to start with, coz it all boils down in the end to making good

things and so that the decisions that you make will be better in the future.

The inverse is also true, if you feel bad so you start to make decisions ... People

break up their marriage, they are depressed and so they go: ”Who am I gonna

be with now?” And when they are propelled from a bad feeling they're gonna

make bad decisions. So this makes it so important to feel good before you start

deciding what to decide. Otherwise your decisions will not be good decisions.

The more you make good decisions the better decisions you will make. The

more you make bad decisions - and this is why people have cycles of ups and

downs coz it takes very little to change that course around. This is why you

have to be so careful that when things are really going bad that you really stop

and put yourself into a good state before you re going to make decisions about

what you're going to do about it. And people go: ”Well that is not very realistic!”

And I go: ”Yeah, but it works!”

They told me it is realistic to dredge around in people's childhood to try to figure

out how to make them happy adults. To me it sounds absolutely absurd - the

idea that because your parents didn't love you enough as a child ... You know I

had a crappy childhood, but you know what? I just don't think about it much

because I've had a wonderful life as an adult and I made sure it stayed that

way. And people say: ”Well, if you repress this stuff it will come out somewhere

else.” Well, it will. It will come out in their childhood!

To me the Dalai Lama summed it up quite well: ”Sometimes bad things happen

- you just don't dwell on them.” If you throw a pebble into a pond it makes

ripples for a while but eventually it smoothes out. When people dwell on things

too much they blow them out of proportion. This is one of those phrases.

Psychologists said they observed people. They did this in a way where they

didn't let their own personal feelings get involved. I am not like that. I am

personally involved with everyone that I change their lives because they don‘t

come to me first to start with. I am not anybody's first choice. By the time they

get to me they‘ve been through everything, and pretty much they are told that

this is their last hope. And I always look at them and smile and say: ”Well, then

you're in big trouble! Because I am not gonna fix you. Coz‘ I don't think you're

broken. I think you are just stupid. And one thing that's nice about accepting

that you're stupid is that you can always get smarter.”

I accept that I am stupid.

Interruption from the waiter

So where were we? You were going to interview me.

Ronnie: You mentioned that late at night you are working on a new book. What

is your new book going to be about?

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Richard: Actually there is a couple that I've been working on. One is called

"Back from the abyss”. That is primarily a book of fiction. As I say in the

beginning there is not one shred of truth in it. So nobody has to be afraid of

anything. It kind of oscillates between stories and stories about the stories. It's a

book that is designed to dispell fear. It makes fun of absolutely everything -

especially me!

Because I believe that one of the problems is that people can't poke fun at

things. And that's why things become much more serious than they ever ought

to be. That the idea that there are laws of thermodynamic, the absolute

pompousness of people who made those things up ... that's why I made up the

three universal laws of human modeling! And people were asking: ”We are

writing our termpaper and what do we reference?” And I said: ”Well, the

structure of magic, that's where I laid them out.” And they said: Well, you didn't

make them sound like they were laws?” I said: ”Well, other people make up

laws, why can't I?” I make up my own laws.

To me it's the silly things: I have been accused of such horrid things. But I never

thought that they have done a terribly good job of it. So I accuse myself of

everything: I blame myself for the black plague. I blame myself for everything

that's ever gone wrong on this planet. See, to me it's not where you put blame.

It's what you can get done that counts!

All these people who have all that time end energy to pluck names of how

they're trainers of NLP, head of the German society, head of the Swiss society.

But if they have no connection with me they have nothing. Because it is the

thread that runs from me to people that is about really the strongest thing that

NLP is about. It's about an attitude. And the attitude says that things can get

better and that things should be based on doing the right thing for the right

reason. Not because people are inherently helpful but because doing helpful

things is the right thing to do. You can't sit by and watch children starve. It's the

wrong thing to do. And people have known this for centuries and there is only

one thing you can do about it and that is to feed them. And start with the one

which is the closest to you and work your way out.

It's wrong for people to have such wonderful lifespans and no life. To me it's

only as we conquer fear ... which is as we said in the workshop I was doing with

you, two years ago. When you realize how easy it is to take the sensations that

constitute fear which stop people from doing everything. It stops them from

being intimate, it stops them from being kind, it stops them from doing the things

in life that they wanna do. They are afraid of poverty and yet they never had it,

they don't know what it is. They are afraid to try things, they are afraid to do

things. They are so afraid they hide behind this pompous beenpusher attitude,

where they think titles make up for skills. They think hours make up for

enthusiasm. It is not how many hours you spend in a practitioner course. It is

how enthusiastic the person who teaches it is. It is not how long it goes on. It is

how much information is transferred from one person to another. It is how much

skill the other one has.

I know of things which are so absurd. I met someone on an airplane who pulled

out my book and started reading it. I laughed and said: ”Are you enjoying that

book?” The guy said: ”No, but it is very important!” And I said: ”What is it you're

trying to get out of it? Because actually I've read that book. It was about thirty

years ago and my memory is that there is not that much in it.”

And he said: ”I've been in a course for nine months studying the Meta Model”

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Interruption from waiter

Ronnie: Lately I‘ve read some articles in NLP Magazines for instance

discussions about the Neurological Level Model of Robert Dilts that are so

pompous, they strike me like some medieval scholars arguing whether Jesus

could have saved the world in the shape of a pea ...

Richard sees an article in the magazine on the table: See that picture right

there? That picture there belongs to me! That does not belong to whoever wrote

the article. That picture there is mine and it is out of my book!

Now, what's it doing in his article? He didn't ask me permission for that! It says

right here: it‘s the NLP eye accessing cue for normally right handed people.

No, it is not! It is Richard Bandler's eye accessing cue chart from Richard

Bandler's book. Now that makes this man a plagiarist. NLP has never written

anything. It's a word. It's not a human being, it does not own anything, it is just

three letters out of the alphabet which I put together as the name of what I do.

And I have been very generous about sharing it with people but there are a lot

of people who have been much more generous with themselves about stealing

it. And that person who published it is guilty of not checking his fax. And he

should not publish things by people who are plagiarists. So the publisher of this

magazine is just putting things in there to make money. He is not checking his

fax like a good journalist should, because he knows what book that came from.

But it didn’t quote it from my book. I didn’t see a footnote in there. But yet he

publishes articles by people and he just doesn’t care. Because he’s in it for a

buck. It’s a good marketing ploy, you know? But I think these people should go

and sell aluminum siding and give up my work. Coz' my work is gonna hurt

them and they don’t understand this. My work is dangerous, very dangerous, for

those who do not use it properly. It does not hurt other people, it hurts the one

using it if they don’t use it properly. They will end up being a bigger and a bigger

idiot every day and it will become more apparent. They’ll end up taking on

Hawaiian guru names and every other idiotic thing you can think of. And I

always say: ”It doesn't matter, not even a tad.” (laughter) I got that from my wife.

The most important thing is that people focus on what it is that my work is

about: My work is about making humans rise above the dung of society - not to

be better than other people, but to be better human beings, better than they

were the day before, and better the next day than they were the day before that.

Not bigger idiots, not bigger titles, not more credentials, not bigger plagiarists.

Because I tell you I have never seen so many books written about such few

ideas.

A journalist from Germany said to me one time that she was at a workshop and

they had a table full of books. There must have been 200 different NLP books

out there and she said she bought everyone of them and she went and she

read all these books and she said: ”All of the stuff that was in all of the books is

in your book already. So what are these other books for?” And I said: ”Money!

That’s what they are for. They‘re not about ideas.

Even the book ”Influencing With Integrity” which I find absolutely ludicrous as a

title, right? The introduction is written by somebody R.B., and it’s not me. It’s

done totally to make it look like it’s me, but it’s not me. It’s written by somebody

else who I guess has those initials but he doesn’t write out his name, it just says

R.B. That’s put there to deceive people, that’s all it’s there for. It’s there to cheat

and to trick people. So that when they pick up the book and they see it they’ll

buy it and somebody makes some money. And everything that’s in the book is

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stolen, including the inside cover plates which were taken from my home. By

someone literally stolen, not kind of stolen - literally stolen. There was a game

board called ”Loosing Your Marbles” that I was making up at the time. This

person stole it and put it inside their book. Now to me, I don't care what anyone

says. The truth will be known and the truth will set everyone free in the end. The

truth is: This guy who owns the journal and this guy who wrote the article did not

make up this work, so I don’t really care if they wanna argue how big a pea is

on the nose of Jesus. This does not matter to me one iota..

Inger: You are moving so fast that a lot of your old students are falling behind.

Richard: Oh, you mean that you have to keep learning things? I don't stop. I am

not done yet. Some people try to avoid learning new things by being more and

more stupid. They forgot what was the most important thing.

Which is they didn't get into this so that they could be superior to someone.

They didn’t get into this so that they could get stuck. They got into this because

they tried something new and it gave them a real thrill. For the first time they

had an impact that the clients changed in ways. But they forgot that in order to

do this they went first. See, when they came they didn’t start by just learning

something and going back and changing somebody else. That’s when the thrill

happened. But what changed first - was them! You can't stay the same, you

can't stay safe. There isn't anything safe anywhere on any planet that I know

about. It's a very dangerous thing being alive, as soon as you're alive, you

know. Life is the cause of death. Without life there would be no death and

people forget that what it is all about is having courage to stand up for what you

believe and being able to take the bodysensations that you have and make

them so that your hopes, your desires, your dreams, the things you care about

and the people that you work with, that all of that stuff is headed into the same

direction. That it is headed into the future.

So the other book that I am doing is I am putting together some CD's. They are

like the tape series I made ten years ago. They were designed to make the

human spirit to be able fly and in the past few years as you say most everything

is changed. I don't do what I used to do. I don't have to. I found better, faster,

quicker, more efficient ways. You know you could sit around for three hours

doing reframing. I can't believe that they still teach it. They teach it in courses

that I am teaching with them. They don't teach it when I am around, but I just

think it takes too long and it's too idiotic. It was a good step. But at that time the

reason we had to do it was because people thought hypnosis was bad and they

thought it didn't exist. These things don't even fit together but yet this was the

current belief. So we made up a goofy way that they didn't have to say the word

hypnosis, but they did all the same things. Now that I don’t really think that‘s an

issue anymore, I think any competent communicator who thinks hypnosis is bad

or good is got to be wearing a dress and it has got to have a white collar on it at

the same time. Because anybody else is not thinking about bad or good.They're

thinking about what works and what doesn't work.

Ronnie: What are areas you have been exploring recently? You mentioned

modeling some dangerous stuff.

Richard: Some things are more dangerous than others. Things are only

dangerous depending on whose hands they're in and how they are used. Many

things that were done by various ”cult leaders” ... Rasputin was a great

hypnotist, he was a guy that did miracles and people thought he was a bad guy.

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Ronnie: My grandmother knew him.

Richard: Your grandmother knew him? Oh, that’s wonderful.

Ronnie: She met him when she was a companion to the daughter of the Zar.

She spent some time with them in their holiday resort at the Black Sea. She

said all women were dependent on him and bragged: ”Only I could resist him!”

(Laughter)

Richard: ”Mmhm, only I!”

Ronnie: ”So I even have some small chance to be a bastard grandson of

Rasputin.” (Big laughter)

Richard: And what a chance that would be! My wife and I found a photograph of

him the other day and we ..

Paula Bandler: I want to morph it with Richard‘s picture.

Richard: Bansputin, I can see it now.

Ronnie: And he used hypnosis, too?

Richard: Oh man, I guess. To me there are some fairly unknown things. That‘s

part of the reasons that we went to India. It wasn't just because they wanted me

to teach there. But there was lots of good ideas to explore. We went to some

places where people came to us in droves and shook our hands for being the

only white people they had ever seen there. And I got mad. I said: ”Look, I'm not

white.”

Excuse me, there are some things worth being proud of. Compared to them I

might look white but I certainly don't look white when you put me around other

people. I don't have the right ideology. I would never make a good nazi. I'm

always too busy looking. There are too many things I wanna see. So when they

say ”not see” (pronounced like nazi). I say: “No, not me. I will see!”

Writing all this nonsense about ethnic cleansing. I think we should drop some

mirrors down in that country so these people can take a good look at

themselves. You know, that a big tough soldier could chase children out of their

homes ... I mean, these people should just basically be ashamed of themselves

and until they are we have a lot to teach on this planet. That people think that

torturing children is a good idea, I mean excuse me! These people know better

than this! But whenever you put groups of dogs or groups of ignorant people

together it is no telling what they will do, you know. They run wild. You can take

the most domesticated dogs in the world and you put them in packs and they

run around and they kill things indiscriminately. And humans are much the

same way and until humans learn to simply say: ”No, I won't do that, that's

wrong. And you know it's wrong and I'm not gonna do it!” Until someone says it

nobody will stand up and say it. And I'm sure these soldiers don't feel right

about what they’re doing, they can't.

There was one story somebody told on television about how one of the soldiers

had helped them to escape, you know. He was supposed to take them out and

take everything away from them. And he took them out and told them to get in

their car and get the hell out of there. He said: ”My uncle is married to an

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